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I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. I covered the more common ones, but if you have another vintage Lionel transformer of more than 75 watts and its in good condition, theres no reason not to use it. With two switches, you can create an alternative route for your trains. This is interesting stuff. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. [:)]. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. Lots of good information for building any size O Gauge layout. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. The preferred choice for wiring control panels is telephone or telecommunications wire. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. Any of the below transformers from M.T.H. If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. OTTS Founder Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. You must be signed in to continue. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. Price Received. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. The multi-conductor wire is also available. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. The new Lionel ZW-L is getting a lot of good reviews and is a very powerful transformer for most layouts. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Number 22 solid wire works best on most scales. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. . That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. What do I need to do that with? The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? If you have a very long run, you may want to consider Number 12 wire. the amount of track is not what is important here. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". I have had the same problem. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. How to open tamper resistant outlets, Xxcopy vs Xcopy: Command line copy utilities, Where to connect the red wire to a light switch, Brains 25 cents: The story behind the meme. Outdoor railroads are, of course, an exception! to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Join Today! Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. This is why my wife loves me so. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. It was a symbiotic relationship, the engineer designed it and the tech built it, then they both troubleshot it. Unlimited Members, sign in to enjoy sitewide access. Not unlike the relationship between the locomotive engineer and the fireman. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. Transformer sizing for new systems Lionel and other train manufacturers have worked hard to make adding to a set easy, affordable, and fun. I will make a note here. no it isn't. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. As you progress with your layout there are a lot of people here who will help you with any questions you have. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. Mark. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. We're sorry. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. To my knowledge, you should have no compatibility issues with a pure sine wave track feed with any major brand locomotive. If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. Model train power falls into one of three categories. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, Calculating transformer size for layout size. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. Take the hint. They are fun to have. I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. The transformer included with your starter set should be adequate to handle a modest expansion of your train set discussed above. Yes, but the train will probably run too fast, depending on the output voltage of the transformer. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. I really doubt you will need more than that. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-wattLionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. What size Lionel transformer do I need? That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. A rule of thumb from the elders, (I had to go to the mountain top for this one), Add 2 more watts for Spankybird's fun-filled layout! Of course, the answer to that question depends on many things. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. Ive talked about why here. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. I had 3 lionel cw80's and two quit working. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers' Henry V. I am a person with a very active inner child. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. It is important to remember that the real test of the power supply is the load you'll place on it. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. A. Price Received. Extending the Reach of Your Power Lionels HO Gauge items are back! If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. $2799. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. The car on the left is scale, and the one on the right is the classic, underscale size. It is 5" long. what size lionel transformer do i need. Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. This diagram shows all of the controls and the pinout for the Lionel RW transformer. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. That was before all the technician assemby work was outsourced overseas and they left the poor engineers to fend for themselves. Its a good transformer. However, there are times when the solid wire has advantages, particularly when soldering in small locations. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. This works for command control layouts too, since those parked trains are still drawing some current. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Wire gauges are coded by their size. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. Digital command control systems (DCC) uses digital information to control the electrical power to the train. Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. They are fun to have. If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. Price Received. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. JavaScript is disabled. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. electronically controlled outputs. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! The locomotives are battery-powered and made of durable plastic. This thing has more power then I will ever need. THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". --I need a station for the train to stop at. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. The Lionel 1033 can be used for small or medium-sized layouts. Heavier insulation not only adds to the cost of the wire but also makes it harder to bend. Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. I cant see you needing more than a capacity of 5 amps. Ive talked more about the KW here. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy.